GARY W. GOLDSTEIN INTERVIEW PART 2

Here’s part two of my interview with legendary Hollywood producer Gary W Goldstein, where we’ve been discussing how it’s imperative to be bold as a writer…

What was it about the writers you've championed that attracted you to them?

“I'm looking for people who have personality and aren't afraid of telling their story and that they know how to tell a story. Not because they write a perfect script, there is no such thing. At the heart, I want to see there’s a very meaningful and worthwhile artist at work, who’s got a fresh perspective and is not trying to mimic others and be commercial in the marketplace… true storytellers.

What kind of script are you looking for? That's just such a terrible question. What am I looking for? I'm looking to be lit up like a human Roman candle. I want to be surprised. I want to be moved. I want to see brilliance. I want great dialogue and characters that relate. Take me on a journey that I wouldn't have expected, to a place I've never been.”

One of the most frequent questions I read in writers’ forums from new writers is, ‘How do I get an agent?’ 

“My answer is always, ‘are you earning money?’ You need to prove to them that you're worth taking on and it's not just a matter of having a good script, you need to be out there actively looking for work, making those contacts so that you're attractive prospect. You're not going to get signed at CA if you don't have some business on the table and it better be good business because they got too much going on. I believe that absolutely. I believe that people need to earn their way into success.”

What can writers do to earn their successes?

“That involves a lot of failure. The best way to succeed is to fail fiercely and quickly, ten times more than you are right now. If you're not failing a lot, then you're not going to succeed. So to get over this fear of scraping your toe or whatever that is, earn it and earning it is being busy on your own behalf. You need to bring activity and conversation and meetings and new people into the circle.

I was always happily surprised, like, holy shit, this is amazing, right? I've got a client who's in the game. They're not in the stands, watching the game. They're on the court, tennis shoes, laced up, ready to go. They're playing the game. And it's like, that's what I need. I need someone that I can send into a room. Who's going to be happy to be in the room. Not afraid. I need someone who has earned it and is humble enough to go in as an artist and really tell the truth with no bragging, and connect deeply with people.

I had an actor friend who was in a big funk. I asked him why? And he said, well, I just went into an audition. It’s such a great role. It was a beautiful opportunity. And I just, I didn't get the gig. And I said, I'm sorry to hear that. Tell me about it. So he tells me about it, what the role is, the project, blah, blah, blah. I said, who was in the room?

Was there a casting director? Was there a casting associate in the room? Yeah! Was the producer there? Yeah! There was like this cabal of serious people in the room. And I said, okay, so you went in and you gave your best performance? Yeah! So I'm sorry, I'm hearing like this incredibly successful story and you're all blue and down on yourself and in a funk. So why are we seeing this so differently?

I'm going to guess that you think the purpose of an audition is to book a gig? And he said, of course. Let me be honest with you, you just told me that you went into a room and you got to be a living, breathing personality in this room with these people who are in the center ring of Hollywood. You had a chance to meet all these people and give them a sense of who you really are, not in character, but as a human. And then you got to perform for them. Do you know how many people on the planet would like to trade places with you? Your job in an audition is to put out the welcome mat, hug people, let them see who you are. Smile. I mean, literally just smile, have fun. Be the one who's pleasant to be around and then give the best damn performance you can give and then leave. Not without another hug. Make them want to invite you back.

Then when you audition for them again it's like, ah, it's Dominic. He's always pleasant. He's always smiling. I mean, it's not always on a conscious level, but now I know you in the business sense, now I can hire you. You need to let people know you, you need to let them be your goodwill ambassador. Maybe make referrals, maybe open doors, maybe talk about you behind your back.

I say similar things to writers who have suffered rejection and they get really upset about it. My philosophy is it doesn't mean your screenplay's bad. They're not rejecting you. They're just that screenplay just wasn't for them at that time.

When you find the people that you admire, that you would want to know you and know your body of work, then go after them intentionality, meet their assistant, meet their creative executive, you know, like find your way into that conversation with patience, knowing that this would be worthwhile and they would be someone that you would really want to have an enduring career with.

So it's worth investing a little bit of skin in the game. It's one script, it's not who you are. Their opinion may or may not be well-grounded, there's so many variables. Did they have a bad day that day? Did they not like science fiction?”

Would you say it's better to aim to make connections with the big hitters? Or do you think it's also valuable too to try and make relationships with interns or script readers and people like that?

“It's not about big hitters because that’s a recipe for frustration. Number one, if you do have big hitters on your list they're not your target. Someone on their staff is your target.

If I'm relatively new and I knock on Steven Spielberg's door, should I expect him to really have the time for me or even answer the door? No, it's unrealistic. He's surrounded by people because he's the CEO of a fortune 100, he's got a bunch of people that firewall him from just that sort of thing. Not because he's not generous, but it needs to be filtered. So I want a warm entry. I wanna befriend and invest in someone who is, you know, maybe one of his creative executives, or an assistant, anyone that has been vetted and trusted and is on the inside, is in my view, equal.

I just went through this exercise with some people the other day. I randomly put in a keyword into LinkedIn and it wasn't even unique to Hollywood, but it was all Hollywood, you know, like I knew what was going to happen.

And I didn't even get past the first two pages. It was just all the exact right people. So I didn't bother going on. I just clicked profile after profile. And after about six or seven they had all done A, B, C, D and E. They've been interning here and an assistant there and a creative executive. I mean, it was like astonishing what they'd done, agency, production, like they were clearly learning the business from the inside out.

They were probably three years into their career and they'd already had a couple of great gigs. They do 18 months. They move on. These people are in the business of building their currency, their knowledge base and their relationships. That's the person that I want. That's the person I know who is going to succeed. They're going to make it. I don't know how, I don't know where, but that's part of my conversation.”

Part three coming soon...

Happy Writing

GARY W. GOLDSTEIN - INTERVIEW PART 1

“If Hollywood were a meritocracy, you’d simply need to be the best at your craft to win! But the best talent doesn’t always get the gig; the best story isn’t necessarily the one funded, produced and celebrated. It often boils down to who has the best relationships. But the dirty secret most don’t know is how easy it is to form valuable, targeted relationships. Like most, they’re looking in the wrong direction. The name on the door. The ones who seem unattainable. But no one is unreachable. Nobody! You just need to know what most don’t. Where to look and how to make yourself welcomed.”

Rewind to the beginning of May and an email drops into my Inbox with an invitation… ‘let’s get together for a chat.’ The unexpected but very welcome email was from legendary Hollywood producer Gary W. Goldstein - Pretty Woman (1990), Under Siege (1992) and a couple of weeks later we managed to arrange a get together via Zoom for a wonderful and informative chat about the business of a successful writing career. 

I’ve always felt that as writers we fall short in how we conduct ourselves with regards to our careers. The business of a successful writing career is usually something that isn’t taught by screenwriting courses and a thing new writers very rarely give much thought to. I cringe every time I see a new writer declaring they’ve just finished their first screenplay in a screenwriting group and then asking their peers for contact details of producers to send it to. They expect it to be that easy to get their screenplay produced and then wonder why no one replies to their query letters.

As writers, we’re often too busy focusing on every minute detail of our screenplays that we forget or are ignorant of the need to work just as hard in other areas to create our successes. So the first thing I wanted to know from Gary was what he thought helped writers succeed and what they did that was different to writers that don’t?

“Well, to begin, successful writers don't hide themselves from the very people who are best positioned to help champion their future. It’s not that they're unafraid. It’s that their mission, commitment, mindset and self-promise to do whatever it takes to live their dream is bigger and stronger than the fears or stories that might otherwise stop them from taking action. The choice to take action in the face of modest or momentary discomfort not only quiets the fear, but delivers experiences and results that quickly replace fear with enthusiasm, surprise, and self-pride.”

What common mistakes did he think writers continually make that prevent them from succeeding?

“The fundamental yet deeply flawed tool most every writer is taught and relies on is the blind query letter. By emailing loglines and project descriptions with a request to submit, the writer can check the box, feel good when they go to sleep that night, thinking ‘I've done my bit. I've handled the business side of my business.’ Yet the reality is the vast majority of queries go unanswered. Almost all. The constant refrain is, ‘I'm so frustrated! I've sent out hundreds of queries, only to be met with silence or, once in a while, a pass.’ Doing the same thing over and over without reward is deflating, exhausting and, over time, begins to create an unnecessary, unwanted, negative story.”

We’ve all been guilty of this, me included, sending out mass query letters/emails in the hope that someone will read our screenplay, see our obvious genius and sign us up. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that. Why then, do we as writers place so much optimism and hope in those blind query letters/emails?

“Writers can often be somewhat introverted and/or socially isolated and, like so many people, they're not innately entrepreneurial, nor have they been taught effective tactics or given the right toolkit. So they’re left to mimic what their teachers teach and peers practice. It’s a perfect storm of circumstances that prevents a writer from seeing over the hedgerow, seeing the bigger picture or opportunity right in front of them. And, truth be told, it feels safe. Sending out emails keeps them at arms length from the rejection they fear. Ironically, it’s that very distance - the length of your arm - that invites or causes that very rejection. It’s deceptively risky to insist on comfort; to quash your desires in an effort to avoid risk, awkwardness or growth. But since a writer’s only doing what everyone else does or advocates, it’s reasonable. Or is it?  What’s persistently proven itself a failed strategy is the very thing that can waste years and bury countless amazing stories and projects.”

For most of my life, when I haven’t been writing, I’ve worked in various sales and service industry roles. You would think then, I’d be used to selling myself, to phoning up people and making connections as I did when I worked in telesales? But no, I’m still scared of picking up the phone and talking to a real, live person.

I can’t speak to why other writers are scared of putting themselves out there, but the reason I find it so hard is I’m terrified of rejection. To me, it always feels personal even though logically I know it isn’t. The funny thing is though, if I don’t make that call I will have already failed anyway, so what do I have to lose by taking a chance? Fear is a stupid thing and it’s ridiculous how much of a hold over me it has at times.

If this is you too, the best advice I can give is to accept the fear and do it anyway. It’s only by doing something repeatedly that we become used to it. If you hide from it you are going nowhere fast and your fear will prevent you from moving forward.

“Your significant investment of soul equity and years of honing your craft - a formidable and admirable commitment - deserves to be supported with effort designed to make you stand out, be known, welcomed, acknowledged, appreciated… and read! A reluctance to engage with the world, to announce yourself as artist, writer, creator, in favor of avoiding the very people who desire and need to know you (not just your latest script) is not a recipe for success. What most writers fail to recognize is their essential value, which is a perfect blend of their personal story (aka personality and history) and their stories (scripts). The writer and his or her fresh stories - the stuff everyone’s in search of, the very job definition of most who work in film or tv. What a writer has to offer is a unique perspective and projects that are desperately needed. The artist matters. Their stories matter. The irony is that, most often, the one who doesn’t recognize this reality is the writer.”

And Gary’s right. It’s not enough to have a great screenplay, you also have to put yourself out there, regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you feel. The groundwork you lay will determine the level of success you reach and getting to know others, and more importantly, letting them get to know you, is how you’re going to succeed.

I understand and empathise because sending a quick email is the far easier option, less terrifying but ultimately also the laziest way of connecting with people there is. And it isn’t an effective tool as I’ve only had minimal success from this tactic. My greater successes have been from direct contact with people, building relationships with them and letting them come to me rather than me begging them to read/make my work. It’s worth noting that all but one of my commissions are a direct result of my networking. And if I’m really honest, there’s still plenty of room for improvement.

So how do you put yourself out there? How do you get yourself noticed in a scrum of competing writers from around the world?

“Taking small actions on a consistent basis, intentionally targeting the very people you most want to know you and your body of work, building bridges and creating rapport, being curious and other-focused - these are the anchors of success. It’s about you, the writer. And despite stories to the contrary, most are extremely welcoming. Especially when not asked in a first exchange by a total stranger to spend a couple of hours reading a script. But rather being genuinely greeted. It’s the simple math of our humanity. And after a handful or two of initial awkward introductions, you discover it’s shockingly easy. It’s ok to be vulnerable and truthful (even if that means admitting to another that you’re nervous). This is an entirely different level of play than an agent submitting your projects on your behalf. One is about a short-term result that is decidedly unpredictable; the other is building rapport-turned-friendship that endures for the whole of your career - where results inevitably follow. This is an order of magnitude more personal and thus powerful than, say, being active on social media."

So get out there and don’t be afraid to be yourself. Be nice! Be kind! Be generous! Don’t push! Don’t pester! Show genuine enthusiasm for your contact’s work and only get in touch with them if you have something to say, an update on how you are progressing as a writer for example.

The Zoom chat with Gary zoomed by (excuse the pun) and he had plenty more insightful things to say about making your writing career successful, so stay tuned for further blogs as, for now, we’ve only just scratched the surface.

Happy writing!

Gary W. Goldstein has produced some of Hollywood’s biggest box-office hits, generating well over a billion dollars in worldwide revenue, receiving multiple Academy Award nominations, People’s Choice Awards, a Golden Globe and various other awards.

Gary’s novel, Conquering Hollywood; The Screenwriter’s Blueprint For Career Success, is available from all good booksellers.